dark side craps strategy. Dark Side betting is but a smidgen different than Right Side betting. dark side craps strategy

 
Dark Side betting is but a smidgen different than Right Side bettingdark side craps strategy  Dark Side ATM

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHTSIDE AND DARK SIDE SINGLE BETS. . . Craps. ☕️ Coffee and Craps is produced generally 3 times per week. . [Please note: In a future issue I will get into more detail about the 5-Count. The Best Payout Slots in 2022. Biggest loss was $240, biggest win in the $500s. The optimal way of playing craps as a beginner is so-called playing the “dark side. Play and win on the go from anywhere you get a connection. - Player 1 bets $5 and lays $20 odds = $25. Let’s assume you bet £10 on Don’t Pass. Las Vegas Tourism Las Vegas Hotels Las Vegas Bed and Breakfast Las Vegas Vacation Rentals Flights to Las Vegas Las Vegas Restaurants Things to Do in Las VegasRe: Dark side strategies Post by DarthNater » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:17 pm I've been war-gaming the $50 lays each on the 4 & 10 with the $100 DP then laying max odds. The goal is to get more wins or improve your Return to Player (RTP). Mr. Basic strategy. 7-out, line away, pay the don't. Head over to our selection of recommended casino partners and practice your card skills with free online blackjack. 10/26/2021: Dark Side Best Craps Strategy: The Hedgeless Horseman DESCRIPTION: COFFEE & CRAPSWelcome to Coffee and CrapsContinuing our series on how to ride the Hedgeless Horseman craps strategy. ☕️ Coffee and Craps is produced generally 3 times per week. Ill be alternating strategies based on pure hunches based on how a shooter looks or previous rolls. The pass sequence starts with a comeout roll and the shooter rolls the dice. Discover the best slot machine games, types, jackpots, FREE gamesTry our free craps systems, plus NFT's. Thanks. Welcome to “The Dark Side” Craps Nation Tutorials & Strategies. . Even with some long rolls seems to work. All Videos on this cha. 6 and 8: $6 for every $5 to win. Here’s how the 3-Point Molly Strategy Works (Example $10 Table) Place a $10 Pass Line Bet on the Come Out Roll. This is one of my favorite, aggressive dark side plays. ☕️ Coffee and Craps is produced generally 3 times per week. . A 7 or 11 you win $10, a 2, 3, or 12 you lose. All Poker Reviews. Learn Craps Dark Side Payouts | Level Up at Dice 05 is the fifth episode in a series with David at Casino Quest. . The game can be fast-paced and frantic. On the Rightside a 7 or 11 is a winner for the player. Welcome to “The Dark Side” Craps Nation Tutorials & Strategies. 67. The Don’t Pass / Don’t Come strategy is one of the most basic Dark Side lay betting strategies, which means that you are betting against a shooter and, in most cases, against a table. When it comes to craps, play the pass and come bets with the table. Winning craps from the dark side is easy. The “Dark Side Strategy” for Craps Lay Bets. There are six craps lay bets available to dark siders. 20%, the casino will on average pay out . 2. This "Go to" craps strategy I first saw from Crappy the Craps man. Beginners to free casino games generally wish to learn a new online game or improve their skills. Place a new one in the event that the come bets win. The house edge of playing these bets is lower, which instantly increases. Smoke the 7 outs !!! The odds are in your favor as you’re betting with the casino and not against. There are some fabulous casino gamers who stream their slots action online for free. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. You need some type of exit strategy, because the worst thing for a Don't bettor is a shooter who rolls a bunch of non-point numbers to load up the DC bets, and then proceeds to pick them off one by one, and then hits the point. They appropriately pay 3/4/5 when you win. Big fan of Color Up trying different strategies for people that like a visualization of how a particular strategy would work on a real table. Check out our full guide to Live Slots Streaming. Baccarat. Learn to play the Dark side and pick your entry points correctly for transition plays; and you will increase your win rate dramatically. Dave73 Member. In your parlance, that’s the “best hand”. These games offer an ideal environment to test and trial strategies, gain a better understanding of complex games, or discover any deficiencies in your gameplay before playing real money mobile casino games. Valheim Genshin Impact Minecraft Pokimane Halo Infinite Call of Duty: Warzone Path of Exile Hollow Knight: Silksong Escape from Tarkov Watch Dogs: Legion. Laying the number the shooter needs to roll guarantees you a payout. Craps Systems Database. From being on this board the last few years I've only seen a few people post about playing the dark side. com. 3 Point Molly. If that bet loses your next bet is $50. Let’s be outfront with this: Every craps bet except the free odds/lay odds has a house edge, and there’s nothing most players can. Dark Side Betting. We all want to win big when playing craps. The package follows some natural logic: a CrapsTable has Player (s) and Dice on it. 3. The steps are as follows: A pass line bet is placed. This Canadian casino also uses the Random Number Generator (RNG) software to ensure that all games are safe and fair. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE!Iron Cross Craps strategy. On the don't pass, the table odds represent the maximum amount you can win, that you have to lay an amount equal to the reverse of the true odds to calculate. BuckShot, Feb 24, 2022. On a Crapless Craps table, there are no dark-side bets (don’t pass and don’t come bets) for betting that the shooter is going to 7-out before making their point. Have the best possible chances of reducing the casinos house edge; meaning you have a strong. 0:00 / 9:51 Craps Part Three -- Dark Side Playing Michael Shackleford 25. Find the best craps games as well as promotions and bonuses with our online selection. Focus on Bets with Low House Edge:. Any other number becomes the point. Brad Thompson, Vice President, Sales & Marketing, Pollard Banknote congratulated BCLC on the debut of the ticket based on the classic JAWS movie. A python package to run all of the necessary elements of a Craps table. By combining these bets, you play almost all numbers except the 7. Straight up 7 (known as big red), payout is four to one and the house edge is 16. Answer 11 of 26: I was enjoying the poker thread so much, I thought it was be fun to read everyone's craps strategies. Click on the system to go to the explanation page. This is a strategy that combines the Field and Place bets. Remember, if you don’t learn to play the Don’ts, you’re guaranteed to lose around 50% of the time at craps. The triple Lux is another strategy that has explosive win potential but it’s not generally reliable. I made this video for my friend Rob, to show him how I play the hybrid strategy / mix between li. Risk Level : Medium. You can play any type of slot for free. Let’s maximize our spread on these bets and Dominate the “Dark Side” to win c. That is known as "playing the dark side," because the vast majority of players bet the opposite way. At the Dark End of the Street 12. PARTY WITH FRIENDS AND MEET NEW PEOPLE. Home Craps Discussion > Advanced Craps > Critique my DC strategy. This will never be the most popular strategy because most players like the camaraderie of betting with the shooter. Oh fine i'll just make a table. Lastly, a CA$15 wager on a six-pick mixed parlay gave cash out of CA$2,997 to a retail. Best Online Casino2022. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and. Questions about playing the Don'ts, Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? You've come to the right place. 01. Dark Side Odds. When there are a lot of things that need to go right to perform at virtuoso levels, most of them need to become second nature. 20%, the casino will on average pay out . The package follows some natural logic: a CrapsTable has Player (s) and Dice on it. Play the Dark Side on. Pass bettors win if the roll is 7 or 11 and lose if it is 2, 3 or 12. The original video explanation of this craps strategy was presente. level 1. 🎲You’re watching the 24th episode of Craps Strategies LIVE! Today’s strategies are of the Light To Dark Side variety. In a casino setting, players bet with chips and wager money against the “bank. There are various other bets such as Horn Bet, Horn High Bet or a World Bet that the Super-visor or Dealer will be happy to explain to you. First make don't pass for $40,lay the 4 and 10 for $40. The right side only wins about one in three times once a point is established. Some tables favor bettors who play numbers, while others favor players who bet from the dark side, wagering on the don't pass or don't come. Your online casino play will earn you Caesars Rewards Tier Credits® and Online Reward Credits®. If the shooter rolls any other number, that number becomes the “point”, and the shooter must roll the point again before rolling a 7 to win the Don’t. That’s all there is to jt really. ). Working a short stack in Craps tak. Laying either the (4) or (10) has a lower ‘House Edge’ than laying the other numbers. Learn How to Win at Craps with the Best Craps Strategy. With 7 being the most common number, playing the dark side to color up is a great idea. It comes under this name because. Find the best craps games as well as promotions and bonuses with our online selection. I limit myself to three losses per. How to play craps with the Horseman, using the dark side to your advantage. It gives a low house edge of 1. Light Side Strategies. Dark Side Craps Strategy - Top Online Slots Casinos for 2022 #1 guide to playing real money slots online. Point established, 5 DC then add odds to DP to cover DC bet incase of a seven. What do you like about it? What would you do differently?A popular craps strategy for players with a higher bankroll is the 3-point molly strategy. Lay betting is a dark side strategy, but can oftentimes be used as a hedge. WHO WROTE THIS GUIDE. This bet pays out when on the point roll, you’ll either crap out (and the don’t come bet wins) or the point roll will be established and a seven is rolled before the point number is rolled again. The object is to win one wager, then start the progression over. This time, I was influenced by a user of my simulator who showed me the surprising fact that a don't pass bet with 345x odds has a win percentage above 50% after about 10 shooters. Craps: One Surprising Feature of Dark Side Bettinglone irish digit Users Online Now Who Has Visited CrapsForum is an open environment for craps players to talk strategy, learn from experts, and interact with. " That is, it pays off when the seven rolls before the point does, and is therefore, the opposite of the way most players bet. Discover the best slot machine games, types, jackpots, FREE gamesCraps game at a military camp in 1918 Craps being played by children in a street in St Louis, Missouri, circa 1912. Additionally, after making a pass line or come bet, take advantage. A Direct Lay on a number is another way to get action on the 7. However, some Canadian politicians demand more, and a bill has been tabled to develop a national framework on advertising rules for sports. To me it is the best technique for deciding upon whom you will wager. C. Odds versus No Odds-- That's simple. On one side of the table, we have the light side p. Dark Side betting is but a smidgen different than Right Side betting. Wait for a 4 or 10 to get established. It’s called “Iron Cross” because when you place all the required chips on the table, their shape resembles that of a cross. Any other number becomes the point. Don’t Pass / Don’t Come Craps Strategy. Dark Side Craps Strategy - Top Online Slots Casinos for 2022 #1 guide to playing real money slots online. Playing the “dark side” is placing bets on the dont pass line, so that if the shooter throws a 7 before he hits his point of a 6, you win (as well as the casino). With these building blocks, crapssim supports. So I start off low at $60 , if the soft 4 or 10 arrives, I just double it to $120. As far as payout goes, the pass line offers a payout of 1–1, so you will make even money using this strategy. Awesome Craps Strategy! Play the Dark Side! Don't Come Bets. His latest strategy seems to be $50 to $200 on the don’t pass. Dark Side Craps Strategy - Top Online Slots Casinos for 2022 #1 guide to playing real money slots online. It’s easy, simple and puts you on the casino side of the odds at the table. This strategy is a dar. The longer you play craps, the more likely it will be that you will develop some dark side methods to your overall playing strategy. I saw on this forum in an old post that some that play the dark side, (Don't Pass, Dont Come bettors) sometimes also place the 6 and. Dolly Ladderson. That's the kind of payoff not available on standard craps, where the pass line pays even money and long shots such as bets on 2 or 12 reach only. Hopping the 7's on a cold table. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and. But the reality is that the house edge is built into the payouts, and the risk of ruin tends to keep the hold higher than that edge. Dice Control. Simply place the Don’t Pass bet on the Come Out roll and Don’t Come on every subsequent roll. That’s all there is to jt really. I've seen the headless (hedgeless?) Horseman. It takes specific knowledge, abilities, and the proper attitude to be good at craps. Wait for a 4 or 10 to get established. Re: Craps. This channel is focused on strategy roll outs and Strategy development and focuses on showing how well a strategy can hold up to a table, whether Hot, Cold,. Unlike a proper Don’t bet, a lay bet is only odds. Now you can take the approach used by the Greek to a new level using a system where you will win more than 6 out of every 10 bets. Money Management. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and. Americas Cardroom. House Edge (4) & (10) is 2. ”. Coin symbols may award 10x, 20x, 30x, 40x, 50x, 100x, 200x, 500x or 1000x values multiplied by the coin value. The Craps Lay Bet Odds and Payouts. Buffalo – Betting 5 units on every Hardways wager and Any Seven. Craps lay bet odds are paid at true odds; for this reason, casinos charge a 5 percent commission on what. By-Pass the Come Out roll and simply Lay the point. You can lay the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10. If the next roll is the point number, you win. This Forum is Under Construction! By popular demand, it's the return of Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. . This was surprising because most strategies I've looked at have had. The best reason to bet the dark side IMO, beyond the lower house edge, is simply volatility management. He also writes twice-weekly column on casinos and casino games originated in the Chicago Sun-Times, and today is syndicated to many. Large image database. The Don’t Pass (and Don’t Come) are the lowest house edge bets on the table. running 1 session with 1 player/strategy to test a realistic. 0 coins. Playing the dark side Maybe not a strategy as such, but playing the Don’t Pass Line has its advantages. 7K subscribers Subscribe 380 Share 147K views 11 years ago The Wizard of Odds explains to Angela the. Quote: 90crapsplayer66. Offers the most protection against the 7. Playing the “dark side” is placing bets on the dont pass line, so that if the shooter throws a 7 before he hits his point of a 6, you win (as well as the casino). A pass or come player faces a house edge of 1. Enjoy Watching! JML Bubble Craps is for entertainment purposes only. This strategy runs 4 bets. If you are a $100 buy in person you would place $54. If any other number is rolled, that number becomes the Point. Was thinking about playing a table game and from what I read craps seems to be best. At regular craps, many times I will make canceling equal-sized bets on both the pass line and don’t pass at the same time when I shoot, so that I can bypass that part of the game and get on to making and winning my better-paying bets. 4%. The crew tries to get over the Celtic's losing game 5 against the Sixers, recap the results of our hilarious Kentucky Derby draft, bet on horses in general, and Jolly and Juicy's new favorite dark side craps strategy. In 1788, "Krabs" (later spelled crabs) was an English variation on the dice game hazard (also spelled hasard). Give the shooter a couple of rolls then start out small. The advantages of odds are obvious on the right side, but are not so clear on the dark side. This improvement not only cost less in protection but gives you more options after the com. This "Go to" craps strategy I first saw from Crappy the Craps man. 3-4-5x table, $5 bet. . Here, we’re going to use some math and some good old fashioned proba. Odds versus No Odds-- That's simple. I'd rather have a single roll take out one bet at a time. Hey, thats great. Don't go over though, or you automatically lose. The original video explanation of this craps strategy was presente. Fairly new to craps, but I think I’m more of a DP player. If you complete the betting series without a win you must stop playing and leave the table. You can ‘buy’ the number so you can get paid out at ‘true odds. First, you’ll open with a don’t come bet. 3 Point Molly. A 100% or 200% bonus might sound great, but how easy is it to cash out?On Sunday morning Heavy will be back at the dealer school with his Advanced Betting Strategy Seminar featuring Heavy’s favorite right side moves and DarthNater’s top Dark Side strategies. Thanks and GOOD LUCK! key words: craps, casino craps, craps betting, craps systems, craps strategies, how to play craps, don't pass betting, gambling, playing craps, shooting craps, rolling. Dark side hedge. A strategy I have employed when the table turns cold: a $15 don't pass bet with a $4 hedge on the any seven and a $1 bet on the yo; when the number is set, I don't take any odds but put out a $15 don't come bet and a $1 yo. . Hoping to protect your £25 bet, you hedge with a £4 bet on a Hard 6, at a payout of 9:1. Play the Dark Side on. There are 6 ways to roll a. Because the odds are more against the right-side player winning his bet after the point is established, while the odds favor the wrong-side player winning his. For less than the cost of one bet at the craps table, you can purchase this short e-book and learn some really good points about betting on the "Dark Side". This craps betting strategy makes use of the Pass Line bet and the Come bet. Hybrid Strategies. Roll the dice until such time it reaches a point. Most craps players feel that this bet is against the grain of the game. We take a test drive using Waylon's "World's Greatest Strategy. Basically it's just Don't Pass, Come, Come, Don't Come. Also known as “right way” betting because you’ll be backing the shooter – along with most players at the table – to ultimately win. Each casino has different rules for odds. Even with some long rolls seems to work. Click on the system to go to the explanation page. View details Get driving directions to Resorts World Casino New York City. I am a dark-sider (I play the Don’ts) and I always back up my bet on the come out. All, I thought I'd start a thread on Dark Side craps strategies. So even if a shooter makes a 6 then craps out on a 9 or 10, which is fairly common, then your only down 2 dollars. Other. We'll also discuss how to avoid common. #shorts The new new 135 #markallin #craps #dice #casino #learnwithme #vegas #tipsandtricksCatch up with Mark All In on ALL of his social media platformsTik T. January 31, 2023 1:50 pm by Daniel Thompson. Level up your knowledge of the game from a. The mathematically best method is to place don’t pass/don’t come bets with maximum odds, adjusting the base bet to suit your current desire for action/variance. ANY CRAPS - You can bet on Any Craps at any time; The bet wins if 2, 3, or 12 rolls and will be paid 7 to 1. Answer 31 of 83: We are 3 days away from our much anticipated trip to Vegas and I've been reading up on Craps strategies. Step One. The odds and payouts for lay bets depend on the point number you’re betting against. ago. The biggest risk with this strategy is someone who gets on a hot roll, and completely wipes you out. On the dark side, you get a few small losses, followed by a big win. Let me know, in the comments, which. 6% in 2x odds, 0. A good bet on blackjack will lose 50 cents per $100 wagered, while a. Quote: ChallengedMilly. In this session we bet on random shooters. For instance, classic Vegas slots offer newcomers the chance to understand how a slot machine works, what each symbol represents, and the. If the next roll is a 12, the bet is a push, and no money is lost or gained. One common way to hedge is to bet on any 7 at the same time as making a place bet. The best way of hedging your pass and free odds bets in craps is by using place 6 and place 8 bets alongside them. And that's where free casino games come in. Pls play responsibly . Great strategy for playing the Don't Come. Start with Don't Pass. New to the forum but a craps player for years. I'm playing the Dark Side strategy. And if you’re feeling lucky 2 hard ways bet if the point is a 6 or an 8. This Forum is Under Construction! By popular demand, it's the return of Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. Hit Blackjack or the 777 Jackpot so much your head will spin! When playing any online casino game for the first time, it is best to start simple and then progress to more complex versions. Step 2 : Check the Payout Table. Iron Cross Craps strategy. Dave73, Jul 5, 2013. Oh -. I'm playing the Dark Side strategy. 11 What really works?Craps Dark side Or Don't Method With John Patrick Hedge. FILL YOUR POTS WITH GOLD IN MARVELOUS MOUSE! Marvelous mouse features Coin Combo, providing exciting element coin features and up to 7776 ways to win! I don't simply regurgitate the eye-popping bonus numbers online casinos like to promise potential new players with. Then when DC established remove odds of DP and let both bets ride. Craps From The Dark Side. Would be interested to hear your strategies and other thoughts related to it. Baccarat. There are various other bets such as Horn Bet, Horn High Bet or a World Bet that the Super-visor or Dealer will be happy to explain to you. Craps strategies that got the most wins. Blackjack. Table Minimum: $25. Certainly! Here are a few strategies you can use when playing the "Don't Pass" bet in craps: Flat Betting: This strategy involves consistently placing the same bet on the Don't Pass line without adding any additional bets. Don’t Come Strategy in Craps. Playing the “dark side” is placing bets on the dont pass line, so that if the. By-Pass the Come Out roll and simply Lay the point. college basketball parlay. , two 2s, two 3s, etc. For a $10 wager the loss is $1. If you are a $100 buy in person you would place $54. I often play the dark side. If the dice produce a seven or an 11, it is a win. Second, by taking 2x odds, you reduce the house edge on your Pass Line and Come bets to just 0. Ive begun to play the dark side mainly because a single 7 does not wipe out everything at once. CryptoBusiness, Economics, and Finance. House Edge: 1. Using basic strategy can reduce house advantage to something like 1%. Re: Craps. Playing the DarkSide gives you the fine upstanding craps citizen, the. Players choose the 6/8 craps strategy over other place bets because 6 and 8 have the second-greatest odds of landing on the dice (besides 7). Essentially every roll I'm adding 1x, 2x, or 3x to the lay while maximizing odds. 🥃 Cocktails and Craps. The Best Payout Slots in 2022. In Q2, the leading lottery provider saw a record quarterly revenue of CA$130. . 40 percent, the Don’t Pass is a premier bet. The Come Out roll is a 9. However, the game selection is low and the payout speed is inconsistent. Having no dark side or hedge bets available for betting makes Crapless harder to win than regular craps. Casino Ns Poker, Dark Side Craps Strategy, Tulalip Resort Casino Call In, Gambling Awareness Leaflets. You can win all 4 jackpots if an award all icon is revealed. Thanks! at a 3/4/5 table all the dark side odds are 6x. From the book of Waylon Craps Nation Tutorials & Strategies. Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by BuckShot, Feb 24, 2022. There are literally hundreds of betting and pressing strategies out there. Ever since they introduced ETG bubble craps to Las Vegas this is probably the most times that I’ve ever played a Dark Side strategy during any trip 😅🤙🏼Aggressive Lay 4/10 Craps Strategy is the latest video in my Dice Advice series where viewers submit craps strategies that I roll out. The payout percentage tells you how much of your money bet will be paid out in winnings. On the American double-zero wheels, the house edge can go from 2. These are true mathematical odds. Good. Even though they target t. ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd. when this happens, a dark side shooter is often compelled to increase odds now, perhaps taking 30 dollars of odds on the 10, so 40 to win 25, this would off set a loss of the 6 and actually make 3 bucks on the shoot. Understanding the Chart. Players often refer to the “don’t pass/don’t come” strategy as the dark side approach. Sometimes I'll skip shooters if they were known "hot" or "unpredictable" shooters or bet minimum on the "right" side on them, and myself. After a long while, I went back to using my simulator to try and understand the game of craps better. The Don’t Pass bet is sometimes called “betting the dark side” because it goes against the shooter and most. Players must also determine and adhere to the optimal Craps strategy for their. In 1788, "Krabs" (later spelled crabs) was an English variation on the dice game hazard (also spelled hasard). Such as in this scenario: - 2 players are betting the don't pass. Try our free craps systems, plus NFT's. The best way to increase your probability of winning in craps is to stick to the bets with the lowest house edge, such as the pass line, don’t pass line, come bet, and don’t come bet, with a house edge of around 1. Casino Ns Poker, Dark Side Craps Strategy, Tulalip Resort Casino Call In, Gambling Awareness Leaflets. Pass line with odds. . 888casino Games At 888, we believe in providing you the best experience in online gaming in just one place. The basic rules of street dice are simple: players roll two dice and bet on the outcome of the roll. The Don’t Pass bet is exactly the opposite of the Pass Line bet. CrapsForum is an open environment for craps players to talk strategy, learn from experts, and interact with fellow dice shooters. Previous. THE DARK SIDE! In this video, I show a basic $10 dark side strategy I use when the tables feel cold and I need to switch things up. . They appropriately pay 3/4/5 when you win. The ‘Point’ Round. 5 and 9: $3 for every $2 to win. By-Pass the Come Out and play a Don’t Come instead, then make that your dominant Don’t wager. 67%. When you place this bet and win, don’t celebrate because most of the other players will likely be betting on the pass line bet and have just lostThe Pro Craps Method. Smoke the 7 outs !!!The odds are in your favor as you’re betting with the casino and not against. The lowest absolute house edge you can play against is the 3 point Molly or the dark side variant with max odds on either side. There’re many Baccarat strategies to choose from. You win even money if the shooter rolls a 7 or 11 on the come-out roll. You can make an odds bet when you place a Pass Line or Don’t Pass Line bet or a Come or Don’t Come bet. For example, if you are betting on the bonus and the shooter only needs one more number for you to win a huge 250:1 payout. Bill. Camilla Frederiksen Bernstorff Slot, Gambling Cruises From West Palm Beach, Catalina. 23%, and the (6) & (8) is 4. . Wins more often than it loses No strategy can win 100% of the time (house edge ensures that) 2. Come Bet: a bet made after the shooter establishes a point. The origins of hazard are obscure. 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